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Old 10-27-2012, 09:38 PM   #1
67FEfastback
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Default Project 487 - Super Snake

The build theme, has taken a twist starting with the engine, which will continue along the lines of the (one only) 1967 Shelby Super Snake, which was tested on Goodyear's Texas test facility, at a reported speed of +170 mph using a light-weight 427 high riser engine.

That engine featured a remote oil filter and oil cooler. We will see if those features make an appearance on the upcoming engine. I like the KISS philosophy for reliability, less things to break or go wrong.

There were a reported, unknown number (likely less than 50) of specially built 1967 Shelbys made with the 427 medium riser engine, shipped to select dealers and customers.
The old 427ís, were thin wall castings, with a square or clover (4 leaf clover) shaped cylinder, to better support the thrust stresses, but often still offering often only a 0.1 cylinder wall thickness, with 0.25 on the corners. Most blocks will only go +.020 over, with +0.030 being a risky limit, without a full sonic test.
I tried finding a used block or a good NOS block, without seeing anything that would make a good base for a performance engine. No luck.

The new block is a 427 Pond Side-Oiler. The side-oiler used a priority oiling system, which lubed the main bearings first. Using the aftermarket aluminum block the front end will get a 75# diet which should be good for the road course, cornering and overall performance.
The inserts/sleeves are set up to be capable of a safe +.080 overbore.
The plan on the upcoming build, is to start with a +.040 bore, and the 4.250 stroke crank, for a 487cu FE.

Besides the weight, the Pond block, also uses fully captured main caps, including the number 1 main, which is not on the on the ford block.



It also uses main cap studs, instead of bolts and larger diameter cross bolts.



The lifter valley is also webbed, for strength. (the below engine is set up for an overhead cam SOHC motor - so lifter bores are not drilled -mine will be drilled)



Stay tuned
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Old 10-27-2012, 10:39 PM   #2
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that looks like good times, make sure you dont forget to update this thread now
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Old 10-28-2012, 06:56 AM   #3
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cool project keep the pics comming
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Old 10-28-2012, 01:48 PM   #4
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So is that your engine or someone else's ?
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:41 PM   #5
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What conpression ratio, rotating assembly, cam, heads are you going to use? Your old stuff or brand new peices? Gonna be a basass motor. The FE guys should like this build. Maybe Posi67 will build one and pull bigger wheelies next year
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Quote:
you obviously bore it .010" then finish hone it, then put an elastic on the diegrinder trigger and dangle that bitch into the bore and watch bounce around in there...thats how you get the .5

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Old 10-28-2012, 10:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistin View Post
So is that your engine or someone else's ?
Those pics are someone else's. When mine arrives, I will get pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by falconguy63 View Post
What conpression ratio, rotating assembly, cam, heads are you going to use? Your old stuff or brand new peices? Gonna be a basass motor. The FE guys should like this build. Maybe Posi67 will build one and pull bigger wheelies next year
Rotating assembly planned;
scat 4.25 crank, H beam rods, diamond forged pistons

Compression ratio 10.5:1 +/- Hydraulic roller cam .599 -.65 lift

Top end will be the same, Intake has already been port matched, but I have started doing a lot of work on the heads;

Improving the oil drain back on the heads;
Increasing the size of the drainback hole in the heads, chamfering, and polishing the "gutters" for faster drainback, less oil pooling

















Intake ports;









I'm working on the exhaust now, which will get a high polish along with the combustion chambers.

I have to unshroud the valves a little more, before I do a final polish and cc the combustion chambers
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Old 10-29-2012, 07:05 AM   #7
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The FE guys should like this build. Maybe Posi67 will build one and pull bigger wheelies next year
I need a block and an aluminum one would take almost 100 lbs off the nose but the rest of my stuff is junk so it would be pointless to stuff it into an expensive piece of aluminum. Don't have Doug's wallet so I'll have to keep my little 390 and save the headers.
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Old 10-29-2012, 07:35 AM   #8
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Is there a reason for keeping with the FE other than look? I know for the guys building clones and such the FE greatly increases the appraised value.

What kind of HP do you think it will make?
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Old 10-29-2012, 10:08 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Posi67 View Post
I need a block and an aluminum one would take almost 100 lbs off the nose but the rest of my stuff is junk so it would be pointless to stuff it into an expensive piece of aluminum. Don't have Doug's wallet so I'll have to keep my little 390 and save the headers.
Work a few more weekends an youll have one lol! And your stuff isnt junk lol.....

And the heads look good, i did that to my heads before i put them on. On my 408 i polished all the drain backs in the block, oil filter bosses, lifter gallery oil feed at the rear of the block etc. how did all the valves and valve train related stuff look?
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Dan: '90 LX coupe: 5.0/T-5/8.8", bolts ons:
Best ET: 12.14
Best MPH: 110.70

'63 Falcon Futura: 289/c4/9", bolts ons, 13.49 @101.10


Quote:
you obviously bore it .010" then finish hone it, then put an elastic on the diegrinder trigger and dangle that bitch into the bore and watch bounce around in there...thats how you get the .5

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Old 10-29-2012, 05:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Posi67 View Post
I need a block and an aluminum one would take almost 100 lbs off the nose but the rest of my stuff is junk so it would be pointless to stuff it into an expensive piece of aluminum. Don't have Doug's wallet so I'll have to keep my little 390 and save the headers.
Yeah save your $. I saw some decent stuff come up on craigslist, but the good parts are sold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian46 View Post
Is there a reason for keeping with the FE other than look? I know for the guys building clones and such the FE greatly increases the appraised value.

What kind of HP do you think it will make?
FE = F*cking Expensive
A 385 series (429/460) is easier and way cheaper to get to 800,900 or even a 1000 hp with the stock block.

Yeah I have already the FE stuff, so sticking with it makes sense.

B2 motorsports (who are doing my build) had built a similar motor (all the same parts - my pistons might be a little lighter and bigger bore) and he had a little more extensive porting and .645 roller cam on that engine, but went to 575 and 630tq

I want a broad torque curve, so am willing to lose a little at the top end for better all around performance. Typically these combos are anywhere from 500-600hp. It will depend on which roller cam I pick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by falconguy63 View Post
Work a few more weekends an youll have one lol! And your stuff isnt junk lol.....
Yeah I agree, what you have isn't junk

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Originally Posted by falconguy63 View Post
how did all the valves and valve train related stuff look?
That I'll have to wait to find out, when I finish the heads. Probably at least a couple that were bent.
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:22 PM   #11
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Your heads are looking good, don't forget to cc the runners as well.
Did you get before and after flow rates?

After looking at the pistons in your first post pics ,I'd love to see those heads
mmmm hemi.
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Whether or not you beat 5.0s or not i don' t know...but i do know that the guys on here don't take kindly to bein beaten by v6ers...the trick is to beat em, then smack talk.

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Old 10-29-2012, 08:52 PM   #12
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04 Cobra...482rwhp on pump...506rwhp on pump + race fuel
1970 Cougar 351 CJ with Ram Air...undergoing complete concours restoration
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Old 10-29-2012, 11:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twistin View Post
Your heads are looking good, don't forget to cc the runners as well.
Did you get before and after flow rates?

After looking at the pistons in your first post pics ,I'd love to see those heads
mmmm hemi.
Some pics of the Pond SOCH heads here;
http://fepower.net/simplemachinesfor...hp?topic=514.0

No before flow rates, but there is a lot of documentation on the stock heads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 04 Cobra View Post
Nice sounding 'stang :)


Some more work on the exhausts tonight.

I am happy with how they look (and feel), next working on the combustion chambers a little more, and then back to the other head.











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Old 10-30-2012, 08:56 AM   #14
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awesome build!, what you using for rocker setup? i need some ideas.
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:08 AM   #15
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that BOSS sounds nice.. but i dont know if a Fe or a boss has more driveable HP than a 408 or similar? Stroked SB
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:51 AM   #16
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Is that a good idea to massage the drain back holes as far as you have? The outer portion of the valve spring looks to be unsupported?
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:05 AM   #17
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There is supposed to be steel spring cups under the springs anyways, they "should" have enough support. I would imagine you arent going to be running rediculously high spring pressures. But it does look like a bit to much was taken away.
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Dan: '90 LX coupe: 5.0/T-5/8.8", bolts ons:
Best ET: 12.14
Best MPH: 110.70

'63 Falcon Futura: 289/c4/9", bolts ons, 13.49 @101.10


Quote:
you obviously bore it .010" then finish hone it, then put an elastic on the diegrinder trigger and dangle that bitch into the bore and watch bounce around in there...thats how you get the .5

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Old 10-31-2012, 03:49 PM   #18
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awesome build!, what you using for rocker setup? i need some ideas.
They are crane roller system;


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Is that a good idea to massage the drain back holes as far as you have? The outer portion of the valve spring looks to be unsupported?
Quote:
Originally Posted by falconguy63 View Post
There is supposed to be steel spring cups under the springs anyways, they "should" have enough support. I would imagine you arent going to be running rediculously high spring pressures. But it does look like a bit to much was taken away.
Actually I didn't remove any material, from the head, (just poished and enlarged the drain back hole) that's the way they come, with a steel cup under the spring.



You can see in the above photo, the weak drainback provision in the early model heads. Mine were slightly better, but I took it another step further.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:59 PM   #19
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that BOSS sounds nice.. but i dont know if a Fe or a boss has more driveable HP than a 408 or similar? Stroked SB
that thing has a Kaase Boss Nine in it, they can make easy 800hp on pump gas with one carb, so sexual
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:56 PM   #20
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that thing has a Kaase Boss Nine in it, they can make easy 800hp on pump gas with one carb, so sexual
The perfect engine for a 69-70 Stang

B2 did one of these early this year;
http://www.mustangandfords.com/techa..._engine_build/



I think they are saying that they made 740 hp,

Engine porn


gorgeous engine (drooling)
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:55 PM   #21
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very naice
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:55 PM   #22
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One head is done, pretty much. One to go.




Before the valves were unshrouded;



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Old 11-01-2012, 01:00 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falconguy63 View Post
There is supposed to be steel spring cups under the springs anyways, they "should" have enough support. I would imagine you arent going to be running rediculously high spring pressures. But it does look like a bit to much was taken away.
Light spring pressure will cause more problems then high.
Hope you removed material from the roof only otherwise you may loose a lot of volosity (bottom end).
Looking good all the same.
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Originally Posted by v6 wannabe
Whether or not you beat 5.0s or not i don' t know...but i do know that the guys on here don't take kindly to bein beaten by v6ers...the trick is to beat em, then smack talk.

My other car is an unfinished project.
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:13 AM   #24
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Engine porn


gorgeous engine (drooling)

this is more my style-- considering its almost exactly the same as mine for looks

i like the Boss valve covers.. thats either TWM or Inglese injection..
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68 Vert - wifes summer toy
89 coupe (needs more HP!)..

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Old 11-01-2012, 09:28 AM   #25
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Light spring pressure will cause more problems then high.
Hope you removed material from the roof only otherwise you may loose a lot of volosity (bottom end).
Looking good all the same.
Yeah I didn't do much at all on the short turn radius, just deflash, and polished.

You are right, lots of people warned me about that. Also the valve throat, will kill velocity, if it's opened up.


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this is more my style-- considering its almost exactly the same as mine for looks

i like the Boss valve covers.. thats either TWM or Inglese injection..
Just hire a cute female mechanic with skinny hands to change plugs. The hard part would be getting spousal approval.
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